The Podcaster's Guide to Staying Persistent and Motivated

Larry Roberts  00:00

Any of these mistakes, there's no need to freeze up. There's no need to think that you just ruined it and you have to start from scratch. Just keep going, keep providing value. Keep delivering that message and keep relating to your audience. Alright, so we're gonna kick this thing off, but who's gonna do the intro? Mark, do you want to do it or 

Marc Ronick  00:21

I don't care. You can do it. 

Larry Roberts  00:22

I mean , I don't really have a preference either. But how about rock paper scissors? 

Marc Ronick  00:26

Okay.  All right, you already did that.  Wait. Wait wait wait. 

Larry Roberts  00:28

What?

Marc Ronick  00:28

Because I always fight with people about this. It's 123. And then we reveal. 

Larry Roberts  00:34

So we reveal literally on the fourth. 

Marc Ronick  00:36

Correct. It's 123 Shoot. 

Larry Roberts  00:38

Okay. All right, here we go. 

Marc Ronick  00:39

All right, here we go. 123. Shoot! you win I got paper? 

Larry Roberts  00:45

Oh, okay, cool. All right, cool. I like this. All right. I like I like the way this is going.

Marc Ronick  00:51

Real pros here doing a podcast. 

Larry Roberts  00:54

Hey, what's up everybody? My name is Larry Roberts, and welcome to the very first episode of podcast PhD with myself and Marc Ronick. We were talking before we even hit record trying to figure out whether he wanted to do this show, you know, and it's a discussion that we've had for actually a couple of months now. Because there's already so many shows out there about podcasting. Why would we need another podcast about podcasting? And the more we talked about it, the more we realize that the term podcasting, it's evolving, it's changing. And there's always an opportunity for other perspectives or other opinions, or maybe a shift in perspective as to what podcasting really is all about. And that's why we're here today. 

Marc Ronick  01:36

Absolutely. And we did it in a lot of ways we did this, much like the people that we coach in podcasting, we were going to try to force something that we weren't really comfortable doing. But we felt like, again, we were making excuses. Who needs another podcast about podcasts. So we were gonna go in a completely, maybe not completely, but in a slightly different direction. And I think that's why it took us a couple months to actually sit down and hit record on this because I think it took us a while to both admit to one another that we just weren't comfortable. We weren't feeling the passion that we believe you need to start a podcast. So we kind of looked at each other and said, All right, I think we got to just do a podcast about podcasting. 

Larry Roberts  02:20

Well, yeah. I mean, you have an amazing clubhouse community, Six, seven hundred people that are in that community. So you talk podcasting literally every day, Monday through Friday. Plus, we have the room there what we do on Thursdays, I travel the country and speak at podcast conferences, and speaking podcast meetups. So we're constantly talking about podcasting to a large audience. But we were going to create a podcast that wasn't about what we always talk about. And it's funny because people are going to look for our content to continue the conversations that we're having. And it just wasn't there. So once we had that very obvious realization without it, this just makes sense. It does. And by the way, Larry, let's double that number for my community on clubhouse. It's more like 1.3 1000 word ruin. Dude, you're growing. Wow, I feel terrible for insulting the size of the community. Because I mean, last I looked, it was I don't know, was there 600 and some change. So man, it is blowing up. That's amazing. 

Marc Ronick  03:14

Yeah, see, and for those of you who think clubhouse isn't a thing, it can absolutely be a thing. And it's actually a real good lesson, I think for anybody, when, for me, I'm on that platform, despite the fact that people say it's not a thing anymore. And that's because, for one, it's actually to me, I look at that as an opportunity. Okay, fellow podcast industry people, if you don't want to be there, I'll be there. And I'll be that source for other people who are looking for help with their podcast. That's one and two, just in general. I mean, just today, at the time of this recording, we did a room all about monetizing your podcast. And we had, I think, upwards of like 150 people come through over the course of one hour. So it's definitely a growing community. And it's definitely a place that you can go to I also say this too. It's kind of like a playground. It's kind of like the gym for podcasters. It's where you go, to really work out your thing, whatever that is that you do, it's to get better at communication better thinking on the spot. So even if clubhouse isn't your app of choice, you can certainly look into the many other social audio apps that are out there, whether it's Twitter spaces or what have you. There's a lot to choose from and I think it's a great advantage for you as a podcaster to use it to practice your craft. 

Larry Roberts  04:33

Yeah, I love the fact that you stepped into that. That void there that has been created because I mean, that was massive on clubhouse for what wanted to drop 19 or 20. Is that when it came out? I think it was 20 

Marc Ronick  04:43

Yeah, I mean, right around the pandemic is when it took off. 

Larry Roberts  04:46

Yeah, I think it was late 19 that it came onto the scene and I was all over it man. I built a how to use clubhouse course and sold that for several months and was in there all day every day. I mean, everybody knew that. If I had a free moment I was in clubhouse but it slowly started to taper off. And people started to kind of lose interest because, you know, one of the problems at the time, and we weren't going to talk about clubhouse really on this episode. But I think it's interesting. And it takes us down a path that we can learn from as podcasters as well. I think we saw clubhouse start to fall apart, because it stopped providing value. Yeah, it at least in my personal opinion, it became a pitch fest. 

Marc Ronick  05:25

Yeah. 

Larry Roberts  05:26

And we were just in there in these rooms. And the rooms were dominated by the facilitators or the people that were on stage. And they were literally taking the time. And they would just go person by person and give their five to seven minute pitch. And everyone was a coach, or everyone had a course or everyone had a book. And there wasn't really any active discussion going on, it was just selling. And that's where I started to go, Look, this really isn't for me anymore. This isn't what this was all about. And I kind of lost interest. And I think that's where a lot of people lost interest as well. Yeah, absolutely. And that's exactly what I don't do on stage, we're not there to pitch. And that's a great also a great lesson for a podcaster I think the same applies for your podcast, a lot of people are podcasting for their business to help them grow, help their business grow, build their authority. And if you're providing value, that's your pitch. You don't need to be there, again, your podcast or elsewhere, when you're talking about your thing, just give give value, give things that people can walk away with that feel like they can go and take action and provide them with that small win. And they're going to keep coming back to you for more, they're going to want to not just to get free stuff, but they're going to start trusting you and believing in you, then you don't even have to pitch anymore. When the time comes that you have a product or service that you want people to get, they're gonna find it, they're going to know about it because you are their resource. In many ways. It's interesting, though, because I think it's a challenge for some people to understand what their value proposition is, you know, if you have a podcast and you're using it to drive a business, or you're using it to leverage your courses, or your whatever it may be your products and services, it's pretty easy to understand how that value proposition comes into play because you build value around the products that you're trying to sell. But if you have a podcast, that's a passion project, or I mean, even take maybe a comedy podcast, we're always talking about having that unique listing proposition or that unique value proposition for the show. That's professional. 

Marc Ronick  07:29

See, it even happens to us.

Larry Roberts  07:34

Wow. So turn your phone's off before you record, folks. 

Marc Ronick  07:38

Yeah, tip number one for today.

Larry Roberts  07:42

So I don't even know where I was going. I was talking about the value propositions where it was going in. It's hard for people that don't have a unique selling type proposition to understand providing value in their show. So Marc, let me ask you this if I had a comedy podcast, and obviously the value there is I'm trying to make people laugh. How do I communicate that value proposition? And how do I make sure that my audience understands this is the value that's in this show? 

Marc Ronick  08:04

Well, I think for one, you have to know who you're speaking to who is your audience, right? If you've got comedy, say that's more geared toward guy talk, but you're speaking to a roomful of women, well, that's going to fall flat, and nobody's going to care, no one's interested. So if you know your audience, then you're able to effectively entertain them. That in itself, once they hear that first joke, and they laugh, now they're sticking around for the next joke, and the next joke, etc. That's the first place is know know, your audience know the things that they liked, that they dislike and play to that. And I think that in itself is the value that they can connect with. 

Larry Roberts  08:43

So how do we define that? How do we define our audience? We've heard it over the years. We call it an avatar. And I personally am not a fan of that word. was a fan of the movie. 

Marc Ronick  08:52

Yeah, good movie.  I'm kind of looking forward to the new and unknown. Is it too late? That That ship sailed? I don't even know. It's been like, I don't know. 20 years since Avatar came out.  You know, look, we've seen some of these other movies that just keep trying to cash in cash in at least they took their time with this one too. 

Larry Roberts  09:07

So that's about Oh, my God. My ringer is not on. It's not even on how was my phone ringing? I promise. The ringer is not odd. I'm showing right here. Look, it's not odd. All right. Why is it still ringing? Listen, this is the lesson today. Don't just turn your ringers off when you're recording a podcast also put the Do Not Disturb on like I did today. Look at the pro over here and look at them. I don't even know how to do that. Is it just Airplane Mode is that when I had to put it in airplane mode? Oh, Larry, what now? You're just embarrassing yourself. You don't know how to do that. 50. I mean, for Christ's sake, I don't know how to use all this fandangled technology that these kids use these days. This is ridiculous. Alright, we'll talk after the show. I'll show you how. But the whole point they're made is to understand your audience and provide value there. So we were talking about how to define that audience and how do you do that? I mean, what are you looking for when you're trying to find your audience? because I know when I first started podcasting worried back in 2014, I didn't understand the concept of the audience. I just knew what I wanted to talk about. I just knew that I wanted to crack jokes. I just knew I wanted to do a what I call, quote, unquote, a comedy show. But I never took that audience into consideration. I just figured everybody's gonna listen, everybody listening to Joe Rogan. So everybody's gonna listen to me too, which is a bit of a fallacy. So what can listeners do to define their audience? 

Marc Ronick  10:27

Yeah, that's a great question. For one I would say, especially when we're talking entertainment is, first be true to you. If this is your humor, this is your style of entertainment, I do encourage you, if you don't know your audience, first thing is stick with your authenticity thick, stick with the things that make you laugh, and that entertain you. That's step one. Now, if you want to get to know your audience, which we're suggesting you do, I think it's a matter of going and frequenting the different platforms in different places online and in person where you think your audience may be. So again, going back to my example, if you're doing a comedy podcast for guy humor, you want to find those places, let's say, Facebook groups, you want to find groups of maybe similar style, comedy podcasts that you can then be a part of, and join that community. I'm not suggesting you join that community, and then promote, promote, promote, I'm suggesting be a valuable member of that community, provide the laughs there, provide the entertainment there through conversation, and allow people to get curious and interested about who you are. And click through to see your profile and see right there at the top of your profile, your podcast, graphic, or info. That is a great way because you also get the opportunity not to showcase yourself, but really study the audience. See the things that they're talking about, learn about their pain points, learn about the things that make them laugh, and then cater to that with your podcast episode. So you shouldn't just go to these these Facebook groups and just drop links to your episodes. No, please, God don't why I don't want people to listen, though. That's the whole point. So how am I going to get him to listen, if I don't give them a link to the show, you're gonna give them the opportunity to get to know you. That's the way to do it. It's not to just plaster your links and graphics in another person's community. They don't care yet. They're not interested yet. They you want them to get to know you. 

Larry Roberts  12:27

But I don't want to know them. I just want them to listen to my show. It's not like I'm looking for friends. I'm looking for listeners. 

Marc Ronick  12:31

Yeah. Well, they don't care about you yet. So you got to give them a reason to care.

Larry Roberts  12:38

Oh, is that how that works? 

Marc Ronick  12:40

Yes! 

Larry Roberts  12:40

So you have to establish a relationship with your listener? 

Marc Ronick  12:44

Absolutely. This is the charm, in my opinion of podcasting. It is a different medium than, say, even a talk radio show. And by the way, when you think about talk radio shows, even some of the big ones like you know, let's use Howard Stern in his example, Howard Stern gets to know his audience, he takes calls, he brings his audience in and makes them a part of the show. And you can do that, but make them a part of the show by spending time where they frequent and converse with them, get to know them. That's the way my opinion you have to go in order to make those connections and then maintain those relationships. 

Larry Roberts  13:25

Yeah, and I mean, just over the years in podcasting, I've realized that, that you have to lay that foundation, you can't just come at them, like I was saying before, and hinting at just throwing links out there, or getting people to listen, because they don't care. And I'm talking to our listeners right now, Marc, think about how you relate to something that you listen to or a show that you watch or a podcast that you subscribe to. Why do you subscribe to that? Well, a You either like the person, the host of the show, or B you find value in what they bring to the table with their show, or see me you're just a fan of the topic. So there's all sorts of opportunities for us to get attention and get subscribers and get listeners to our shows. But we have to do it in a way that relates to the human being, you know, you're a human, you have to be moved emotionally in some way, shape, fashion or form, before you get attached to something, and we have that same job in front of us when he's trying to get people to listen to our podcasts 

Marc Ronick  14:22

and just for the record, Larry, I'm not I'm actually AI, I'm not human. 

Larry Roberts  14:27

Wow, I don't even know how to respond to that. 

Marc Ronick  14:32

I like how threw you off guard there. 

Larry Roberts  14:34

You did throw me off guard. Do we go into robot mode now?

Marc Ronick  14:40

We're taking advantage of all the AI technology out there and oh, by the way, listen. Do you hear that? I do hear that. Yeah. So again, hey, we're pros and we deal with this crap to everybody. That's a lawn mower. No, that is the electrician here doing some electrical work and I guess drilling into my house at the moment.

Larry Roberts  15:00

Awesome, awesome, that's great. So, you know, in all honesty, though, man, we're gonna have this conversation, if we hang up, do we leave that in, you think we just leave that in Marc?  I want to 100%. So you see the realities of it because too many times they had too many times we see perfection in play, A, we try to emulate that perfection in our podcast, let's be honest, most of the people listening to this show right now are not professional podcasters if you're a professional podcaster, you're probably not going to waste your time listening to another podcast on how to podcast. So everybody listening to this podcast right now is most likely an independent podcaster unless, of course, it's some of our peers that are listening in to kind of see what we're bringing to the table. But odds are, you're an independent podcaster. And you're gonna have all these challenges to deal with, whether it's the phone ring, whether it's repairment, at the door, whether it's the dog barking, whether it's the wife with her Amazon shipment coming to the door, you're gonna have all these things that come into play. And we have to go with the flow.

Marc Ronick  15:10

I want to. that really struck something for me, when you talked about this perfectionism, and how many people out there I've, I've been a part of their journey with podcasting, and how many of them really almost wear it as a badge of honor, that they're perfectionist when it's really in my opinion, quite the opposite. I think that it can really hinder your your ability to go out there and podcast and I was just thinking, when your phone went off, when I had the repair guy drilling into my house, say this were 16 years ago, when I started, I never would have allowed that to come through my podcast, I would have thought that was just a giant nono. And it had to be removed. And now we're laughing about it. We're having fun with it. And we're gonna keep it in because it's just real. It's just the way it goes sometimes, especially when we're doing it out of our homes. 

Larry Roberts  16:44

Yeah, 100% man, and I know that's where the vast majority of our listeners are doing their podcast. Some of you are probably sitting in a closet right now you might be sitting in a bedroom, odds are you don't have a studio just yet. It's all part of the process. It's all part of the growth and EVS mistakes. If you do want to take them out, guess what, we have the opportunity to edit it out in post. So there's no need to panic, there's no need to freeze up. There's no need to think that you just ruined it. And you have to start from scratch. Just keep going keep providing value. Keep delivering that message and keep relating to your audience. 

Marc Ronick  17:19

All right, Larry. Well, I think that this is actually a great place to wrap up this episode. I think that, you know, sharing some of these things that we're actually going through is absolutely going to be a part of this podcast. Because, again, we want to actually prove to people that perfectionism doesn't have a place in podcasting, it really does have a place anywhere. And we're going to prove it to you by being ourselves being raw being real. And there was again, my drill. I don't know if you heard it, but there you go. 

Larry Roberts  17:49

That's our "outro", right? 

Marc Ronick  17:50

Yeah, that's right. So we encourage you to do the same. Do not let perfectionism Do not let the little things that happen, stop you from putting out that content that's going to help you grow, help you build your authority, and really make you a better podcaster. So with that, we thank you for being a part of this episode, we hope that you will be a part of this journey with us. And we asked you to do that by hitting that follow button, that subscribe button, whatever you'd like to call it these days. It's usually a little plus button at the top of Apple podcasts, Spotify, etc. Join us be a part of this so that when you do, you'll get new episodes each time that we release them every single week. So thank you again for being a part of it. Being a part of Podcast Ph.D. 

Larry Roberts  18:39

Thanks, everybody.